I haven't covered this yet because there hasn't been much to say, and details are still forthcoming. I suggest you read the whole thread, but here's a synopsis:
1) A man (Parabellum is his forum name) openly carries a firearm (lawfully) throughout Milwaukee for several days, updating as incidents arise.
2) This man is arrested in the City of West Milwaukee for said open carry of a firearm, supposedly for "Disorderly Conduct While Armed."
3) The man's firearms, extra magazines, and other accessories are seized from his vehicle by the police.
4) The DA's office will not charge him, (because what he did was not illegal according to WI statutes and caselaw) but instead they schedule another meeting to discuss options.
This meeting is today, and I will be actively watching the forum to see if we get an update. Best case scenario is his property is returned and no charges are filed. Worst case, is they try to charge him, at which point we will have to wait a bit longer to hear more details.
I think Right-to-Carry advocates everywhere should spread the word!
Wednesday, June 4, 2008
Open Carry Arrest
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20 comments:
This could be the start of a gun rights revolution in Wisconsin, where concealed carry reform has been blocked for years by Gov. Doyels vetos.
See yesterday's LA Times story on the growing nationwide open carry "movement" at http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-opencarry7-2008jun07,0,849912.story: "Packing in public: Gun owners tired of hiding their weapons embrace 'open carry'"
see more at http://www.opencarry.org
Open Carry should be more commonly accepted. Most people think that guns = crime / death, but it is actually bad guns with guns = crime / death.
GET A CLUE, IF OPEN CARRY IS NOT A NORMAL EXCEPTED PRATICE IN THE COMMUNITY YOU LIVE IN, OF COURSE THE POLICE ARE GOING TO REACT. OPEN CARRY SHOULD NOT BE UNLAWFUL IF IT IS AN EXCEPTED PART OF YOUR SURROUNDINGS. TO GO INTO A WALMART WITH A GUN, ON YOUR SIDE IN THE OPEN, IN THE MIDDLE OF DOWNTOWN DETROIT IS ALARMING TO PEOPLE. BE SMARTER ABOUT WHAT YOUR DOING AND THE POLICE WONT BOTHER YOU.
The 20 June, 2008 16:11 posters comments, imply the minority should loose their right to self-preservation. I fail to understand how the previous poster justifies that position.
RIGHTS, are innate by definition and cannot be granted or rescinded, and self-preservation/protection is one of the most basic, innate rights. Open carry will never be commonplace is Wisconsin or anywhere else for that matter, as the majority choose not to exercise their right.
It IS ones right to choose NOT to exercise the RTKBA but to tell those who wish to exercise their right, just not in Wal-Mart is exactly the same as telling someone to go to the back of the bus because you don’t agree with how they look, or in this case what they wear.
To: "Get a clue anonymous"
Dude - this blog is about Wisconsin, where open carry is the only option to carry.
Further - are you saying it is OK for police to unlawfully detain & question open carriers in WalMart's in Detroit?
People who carry guns out in the open are douche bags who never got enough attention from girls in school, their racist dads and uncles, or a combination of the two. put the gun away you under educated, more likely to shoot himself than do any good jackass. practice instead on losing your virginity. you clearly need it.
It's only my opinion that OC in broad daylight is unnecessary and is asking for trouble. However, since I can't CC as I do in my home state, I open carry in Milwaukee's east side after dark because students are a frequent target of crime. Car-jackings, and strong armed robberies are all too familiar south of campus, and if someone threatens the life of myself or whomever I may be with they're not going to walk away from it. And to refute the comment of the opinionated fellow right above me, I'm 24, a graduate student, have two bachelor degrees, and have sex with my lady friend on a very regular basis.
The June 28th poster MUST be anti rights. Open carry is LEGAL in ALL States that alolow hunting, as that is how hunter carry the firearm.
First of all, Adam Gonzales was an idiot for going armed into a Menards in West Milwaukee. There was no legitimate reason for Gonzales to strap on a dangerous weapon in order to buy some bricks. There was no danger to his life at Menards that would make it “reasonable” to go armed at Menards….PERIOD!
When asked directly, Gonzales could not come up with a “reasonable” answer why he went armed into the store except that he “felt threatened”. Then if he felt that threatened by going into Menards, then he shouldn’t have gone there then. He could of gone on another day or go to a safer Menards. There is another Menards only a few miles away in West Allis. He just wanted to be a big shot, attempt his armed adventure and then brag to his friends how he got away with it. Gonzalez is not telling the COMPLETE story. Go to the West Milwaukee police station and ask for a open record request regarding his case. Read the arrest report. Decide for yourself.
Unless you work, live, or in general, have to be in a dangerous neighborhood where there is a reasonable threat against you by being there, then it is reasonable to go armed in order to protect yourself.
Too often too many people just want to be a big shot by going around wearing a firearm. What if someone wanted to take the gun away from the guy walking down the street wearing his gun? Does he have any training to protect his weapon from someone who wants to take it away, forcefully if necessary? 99.9% of you have to answer no. Anyone who wants to go armed in public should have training. Not this 3 or 4 hour CCW training in other states. It should be standards, training and time that’s required for police officers, PI’s & security people. People should go thru a minimum of 35 hours of class & range time and be required to be re-certified every 3 to 5 years. The last thing I need while I’m on the streets is an untrained person squeezing off shots all over the place. And for that reason, I think anyone going armed in public should also carry a liability insurance policy in case they accidently shoot the wrong person.
If someone is going to go armed in public, it should be done “CONCEALED”!
Section 105-34 City & County of Milwaukee ordnance says:
It is unlawful for any person to go armed with a firearm in public (on or about the person) unless the firearm is unloaded and fully incased. The case must be zippered, buttoned, ect. completely and no part of the firearm can be exposed.
165.85 states the only exception is if you are a peace officer, private investigator or security person (while on duty), and poses a valid, current firearms "Blue Card" issued by the Department of Regulation & Licensing under the authority of the Wisconsin Dept of Justice.
This applies to any town, city or community that decides to use it.
http://cc.milwaukee.gov:81/isysnativ...rl8cd/2/hilite
You usually can walk down the side of a highway in a rural area, up north, ect., while engaged in lawful hunting and get away with without getting arrested.
The folks at Open Carry.org are nuts in their claims that Section 105-34 is unforceable. Folks do get arrested, charged and convicted.
Milwaukee cop needs to brush up on Wisconsin firearms preemption law. As Governor Doyle noted at http://www.wisgov.state.wi.us/journal_media_detail.asp?locid=19&prid=2861, "[i]n 1995, the state Legislature passed the preemption law – erasing all local ordinances related to firearms and denying cities, villages, towns and counties from enacting any new laws that would be more restrictive than the state statutes."
Therefore, Milwaukee Code Section 105-34 is invalid as it pertains to firearms conduct not unlawful under state law, i.e., open carry.
I challenge this alleged Milwaukee Cop to produce evidence of a conviction in direct violation of preemtpion that was not a plea deal letting the perp get off his real crimes.
I'll tell ya what Mike Stollenwerk, strap on your firearm and go armed in front of me, I WILL ARREST YOU!
Just let me know where & when and I will make sure I will be there to greet you.
Sure thing Milwaukee Cop, aaaah, just one detail, well, send me your full name and Badge Number so I can coordinate media coverage of your bravery in conducting an unlawful police action. And you might check the phone book for my name - there are more than a few Stollenwerks in greater Milwaukee and they know a lotta folks in those parts.
You must think the Stollenwerk name is going to protect you, eh Mike??? Like the slum-lord landlord Phil Stollenwerk? The corruption flows far...
Then Mike, let him know where and when your going armed in public, I want to watch. Put your money where your mouth is buddy...
A police officer is sworn to uphold the law and protectect the constitution. A police officer is not allowed to make false arrests. If a police officer arrests someone for doing nothing wrong they can be sued along with their municipality for violating a persons civil rights.
The state pre-emption law does make the Milwaukee ordinance invalid. They have not charged this person yet because they do not know what to charge him with. They do NOT want to charge him with disorderly conduct becauce (unless there was something else he did) the judge will dismiss the case. This will then set precendent making any future arrests for Disorderly Conduct for the same action easier grouds for civil suits (Think punitive damages).
If the office wants to do something constructive he will advocate for a sensible concealed carry law. Maybe one that requires the training that he envisions. In any event, even with a concealed carry law the open carrying of firearms will still be legal.
Maybe offering gun safety training classes to the public would be a better use of this officers time. He could then instill in the public the training necessary to defend ones self in case of attack. Or does he think he is the supreme protector of the sheeple?
Give a man a fish he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish he will eat for a lifetime.
On March 20, 2009 a Circuit Court judge returned Mr. Gonzales' firearm and ruled there was no probable cause for the arrest. The case is concluded, and just like Mr. Krause in West Allis, the police were proven WRONG in court.
Open Carry is 100% legal in Wisconsin and law enforcement is going to learn it the hard way.
And again, another Milwaukee area judge says open carry is legal - no probable cause to arrest or steal people's guns.
Ever body git it?
Looks like West Milwaukee got sued this morning for harassing an open carrier in federal court: http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m4d14-Breaking-News-Federal-civil-rights-lawsuit-filed-against-West-Milwaukee
looks like a pretty easy civil rights case.
There is no legitimate, reasonable reason for anyone to strap on a dangerous weapon in order to walk inside a store to buy something.
Your gonna see more signs in store windows saying 'no firearms allowed' because of you retards.
As mentioned earlier, Too often too many people just want to be a big shot by going around wearing a firearm. It's not about rights, it's about walking around wearing a gun.
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